Disclaimer: I am divorced, so may be slightly cynical about the following subject.
A couple of blogs I frequent have lately touched on the subject of marriage, and I have been somewhat surprised at how many people, especially women, use it as a standard or milestone in discussing relationships. So I did a little resesrch, and read this, and have been doing a little thinking.
I no longer belive in the institution. I believe it is possible to have a committed, loving relationship with someone without getting up in front of an official and making a vow. I also believe going through the ceremony does nothing to insure faithfullness; sexual, emotional, or financial. Either the person is going to be true to you, or they are not. No signed piece of paper is going to change that.
I also find it interesting that so many women use marriage as a yardstick for their relationships. Marriage started as a way to control women's reproductive rights and property, so why have we not seen a movement to banish the institution alltogether?
So I am curious, and would like my readership to weigh in here. Do you believe in marriage? If so, why? I am not trying to be contrary here, I just would like to understand the point of view.
10 comments:
As a child I used to think of getting married but now that I'm older I don't really know if it's something that I would be interested in. I understand the history of marriage and the role of women in society has changed. I would agree that a ceremony and a piece of paper do not stop either person from straying from their public/religious vows. I'm gonna go out on a limb here but I believe marriage is a legal issue (death benefits of a spouse, property issues after death of spouse, inheritance issues etc). Of course there is propably love involved but I think it's to protect the couple's children and property. I have no desire to marry or have children so I'm one of those hetero-weirdos. I don't really know anybody who is happily married (inculdes both married sisters) although I believe that there are couples out there who are.
I hope this helps bro.
I would love to be able to be married. There are many benefits that I feel deprived of. If I die, for example, Dan does not get my social security benefits as a widow might. There are ENDLESS rights that he should be entitled to that are not available without onerous paperwork and legal processes. This is a real disadvantage, and after 23 years or more of living together, well, I think it is atrocious. So, sorry Klyph. I don't agree with ya, Bud. But I respect your right to your own opinions, of course.
So much to say, where to begin?
I'm divorced, and I do certainly still believe in marriage. It was only after getting divorced that I fell so in love with someone that I realized why people have the desire to get married (and have kids). That, and I've learned some things from watching my married friends - some who are happy, some who aren't so happy. My friend who lives in Germany, who was married when she was 25, said to me once "Call me a wife, call me a girlfriend, my committment to H. is the same." But you just can't live with someone indefinitely if the two of you are from different nations - the sanction of marriage lets you do that. It can also keep you from getting screwed by someone who seemingly becomes someone else over night - someone my mother knows was kicked to the curb one day, out of the blue, by her husband, who basically said 'get out, you get nothing, the house is owned by my family so you're not entitled to any part of it." Funny, the lawyer she consulted a few days later, and the courts after that, didn't agree with him.
The point I'm trying to illustrate here is that marriage has countless benefits. Think Terry Schiavo wouldn't still be hooked up to a feeding tube if she'd been shacking up with a boyfriend she wasn't married to when she had that stroke ten years ago? Of course she would. Yes, anyone can have a committed relationship to someone without legalizing it, but if you plan to be in it for the long haul, if you wouldn't trade what you have with that person for anything, if you don't want your parents or the state making medical decisions for you, what is the reason to not be married to the person you're committed to?
-Biker Chick
"I believe it is possible to have a committed, loving relationship with someone without getting up in front of an official and making a vow."
Sure. Nobody is arguing with that.
The fact is that we still live in a marriage based society, so the points that Theata Widowa and Biker Chick make about legal and financial issues are completely valid.
And sure a marriage license does not (obviously) guarantee in any way that two people will remain faithful and in love with each other for the rest of their lives. I think it is more an oath that they will really, really try for it (in the best examples of marriage). Through thick and thin. That's how my parents, two people who for all intents and purposes should never have been together, have lasted for thirty-five years. And yeah -- are pretty darn happy together now. Not without a lot of work. But to them, the marriage commitment said they would be willing to do that work.
And with kids involved -- I think marriage makes sense.
I mean, Miranda and Steve did it, right?
I do have issues with the fact that my gay friends cannot get married. That to me cheapens the whole affair. If it stands for what I think it should stand for, then people should be able to officialize the commitment they have to another person -- regardless of the sex of the other person. If anything would ideologically keep me from getting married, it is that -- not the idea of where marriage derived from.
As a soon-to-be divorced person, my views may be a litte clouded. It's interesting to read what everyone says about the benefits of being married. I agree, there are some benefits, but they seems to be closely related to finances and kids and that's about it. For me, when I look back on my short tenure as a wife, I see very little but disadvantages - and that's not just because my heart was broken and I still have feelings of ill-will. I really am past all that. But if I am completely honest with myself (and this has taken 6 months of counseling to admit), being married left me feeling trapped. Did I love my husband? Yes. Did I marry him knowing full well that I was going to have to compromise and maybe even give up certain dreams for the sake of our family? Yes. But I still felt trapped, unsatisfied and unfulfilled. For me, I gave up too much of myself. Now that certainly doesn't mean it's that way for everyone, I'm sure there are lots of couples out there who do it right and are able to grow and flourish as human beings within the marriage boundaries. But that wasn't my experience. Perhaps had I chosen to marry a different man, my experience would have been greatly different. Perhaps not. At this point in my life, I'm not sure I ever want to find out.
OK. Some very valid points here. Must be said, however, that my brother (a US citizen) and his partner (a German man) would benefit greatly from marriage. Too bad it is not available to them here. So, they live in different continents. Can you imagine? But they have been together for over 12 years. This is a legal matter that is unfair, but it doesn't make it the right choice for everyone. Just that it should be available to anyone. I have similar views about abortion and so forth... should be a choice.
Wow. Thank you all.
And I would most certainly agree that if we are going to have the institution of marriage, it should be open to all committed couples.
I don't quite agree with you on this:
"I also believe going through the ceremony does nothing to insure faithfullness; sexual, emotional, or financial. Either the person is going to be true to you, or they are not. No signed piece of paper is going to change that."
The way I see it, a promise is a promise. It is a big deal to break a promise, and I think it is a bigger deal to walk away from someone you've promised to stay with than someone you haven't.
But it's all highly theoretical and no one's beating down my door asking me to marry them, so I'll probably never know one way or the other whether marriage is worth it or not!
(Yes, I am feeling sorry for myself ... even if there are plenty of testimonials out there about marriage sucking - I'd still like to find out for myself ...)
DHD- First, glad you are still reading. I still go to your blog regularly in the hope you have returned.
Second, I don't object to the promise, just the formalization of it.
Everyone else- Would you still want the institution if the legal issues (helath care and death benefits, child rearing, etc.) were resolved through legislation?
I agree it is ridiculous that an individual does not have the right to name who gets their benefits, or who is going to raise a child in their absence.
I would also argue the Terry Schiavo case illustrates the need for a living will or similar document.
Still not trying to stir up the muck, just trying to understand why people are still so attatched to the institution, other than the legal issues.
About this part:
"Everyone else- Would you still want the institution if the legal issues (health care and death benefits, child rearing, etc.) were resolved through legislation?"
Part of the meaning of "marriage" to me is that the family, friends, and society in general have come together to recognize your mutual pact and pledge to respect that you are now "married." Not just that you have legal ties to one another. It's the fully recognized respect of the relationship being sought here. By denying the OPTION of being married to some people, it is like saying, "We don't think of you folks like we think of these others. You can have your separate-but-close thing, but not marriage because that is restricted." Do you see how that has nothing to do about death of spouse or property rights or medical directives? (Those are important matters anyway, and why should some have automatic rights to them while others have to write up documents?) But that is not the point: what is important is the meaning our society still places on recognition of marriage as a way to say "2 people living together in a bond" even if, sadly, many do not last.
So the simple answer to your question, for my part, is YES.
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